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Post by lowell on May 25, 2007 20:08:03 GMT -5
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Post by Rob on May 25, 2007 20:33:35 GMT -5
WoW! Looks good, it must have taken you awhile to put this together. You forgot 3 of the 4 Cascade Football League teams I believe. www.leaguelineup.com/welcome.asp?url=cascadeflSend this to the Commissioners of all 5 leagues. Request that they start in May. ;D
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Post by bearcats58 on May 25, 2007 21:41:11 GMT -5
THE PLAYERS AND FANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FOR THIS. ITS THE OWNERS AND LEAGUES THAT HAVE TO COME TOGETHER. THIS LOOKS NICE NOW JUST SET UP EVERYTHING ELSE, LIKE SCHEDULES, FEES, USE ONE OR TWO FROM EACH LEAGUE AS ADMINISTRATORS, AND BRING IT TO THEM SO THEIR IS NO OTHER WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AND THEIR CAN BE NO EXCUSES. THIS WOULD MAKE FOR A GREAT SEASON AND PLAYOFFS. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS LIKE SO MANY OTHER GREAT IDEAS THAT WOULD BETTER OUR LEAGUES AND MAKE FOOTBALL IN THE NW THAT MUCH BETTER IT WILL PROBABLY DIE RIGHT HERE JUST LIKE THE REST.
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Post by Vizzini on May 25, 2007 23:56:58 GMT -5
I think it is a cool idea, but there are some possible flaws. How many of the teams share players, especially the spring leagues vs. the summer league? If this were to happen this would spread the talent over a huge area of the NW. This could deplete one or more teams of their talent and then we'd never have a contending team for the national playoffs. We'd be stuck with the GNFA championship. Big whoop! Just my opinion, even though it really is the only one that counts.
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Post by lowell on May 26, 2007 0:03:49 GMT -5
I think all leagues would have to make a compromise...meaning the PNFC and EFL & OFL teams could start a month and a half later and the NWFL would start a little earlier....the Vikings played an April 7th game already and didn't cry about it..(kudos vikings!) I'd like to see what percentage of the players in all the leagues would be for this..after all aren't these leagues put together for the love of the game and the players that strap it up? I know the owners love the game also but they would have to put the ego aside for what could be the most organized and truly exciting semi-pro league in the nation. As it is, there is just too much bickering about who's what and who's not and this and that...blah, blah, blah. You all know this would be toooo sweet to see take place. Let's put it all together and make something very special here in the northwest! One big football community instead of all the factions and segregations we currently have. Rrarey...good point..I hadn't included any other cascade team because I simply know nothing about them...though I plan to watch the invaders play....Ummmm...the other team??? Skagit?? I know the Olympic Peninsula Eagles are legit...any team that competes well with the Raiders are legit....I see the Raiders as not exactly the best team at this point but certainly a great litmus test to see where your football team is at...and I mean no disrespect to the Raiders..perhaps you'll prove me wrong this year and take the title who knows. Once those Cascade teams that are willing were added we could do a little more shuffling but the coaches and owners would have to clean up the details if they were on board for this. ( note: though from what I've heard the Invaders owner does his own thing so I'm sure you could count them out) Again, there would have to be compromises for all current leagues but those could be hashed out if the owners and coaches are willing to throw their baggage behind and make this dream a reality. "Build it and they will come" as they say. So clearly the top team of each division clinch a playoff berth then perhaps the top 7 or so records from there on out would also be in the playoffs or whatever...ask Justjohn..he could figure something out I'm sure with respect to setting up the playoff scenario...regardless this would be a playoffs worth watching and/or playing in. Gimme some luv here fellas! Comments?
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Post by bearcats58 on May 26, 2007 10:51:01 GMT -5
Its a good plan an if the east don't want to start that late do to heat I wouldn't mind even starting mid April. If we can get all the players on board the owners will have to follow. Nice work keep pushing it.
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Post by Stiltz5 on May 26, 2007 13:19:11 GMT -5
this is a great idea and so what if the talent is moved all over thats the point teams will build just the NFL the talent is spread all over. and they move from team to team now the contracts have to be extended from 1 yr to maybe 3 yr. thats just a thought too. but i do love this idea and it needs to come together more games = a real season. but instead of having an independant central division take one team from each west and east and make a 6 and 5 team central in the east and west so we have 2 conferences 6 division (3 in each conf.) with 6 teams except 1 having 5 teams. and then we would have a real playoff scenario. actually lakewood might not be there no more since they folded this yr their future in uncertain so 2 divisions would have 5 (the central division). and we would have to try and miss as much summer games as possible in that eastern wa heat i know what they talking bout i lived there for 6 months its crazy. why not start in sept.? or march? and start practicing in vice versa months. my opinion if this comes together its goin to be because of baines. and the NWFL board. i might be wrong but i see thats where this all lies....
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Coach Swain
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Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on May 26, 2007 14:15:35 GMT -5
Great Idea! But to much fear of the unknown ( On everyones part) will cause this to never happen! I don't speak for my whole team but I would be more than willing to start in April for this to work. But then of course the other leagues would want us to start in March....... Well thought out just curious if you could give me a little geography lesson......Is Yakima closer to he southern teams than the Cavs? I still don't know Washington that well!
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Post by headstang on May 26, 2007 15:52:12 GMT -5
Coach Swain our season actually started on March 31 for regular season. The March games were non-conference games and that goes for the EFL as well I believe. If we could get everyone to start it in April it would allow the EFL to participate without the scorching heats of July and August. I mean this weekend is already pushing 80 degrees in Yakima and we haven't even hit June yet. The problems we are going to run into is differences in opinions and not wanting to give in to someone elses ideas. Some teams say it's too hard to find a field to use but I haven't found any problems in field usage for our spring games. We may have to use 2 different fields but is that really that big of a deal? Others complain about the weather, all I say about that is grow a pair and play the game or go home and play tidley winks or something. Weather is a huge part in the game of football and guys that want to move on to the college level or above should be playing in the cold weather anyways since college, and pros paly in fall and winter. It could be worse, we could make you play in the snow Well there's my two cents about it but that's about all it's worth is two cents ;D
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Post by bearcats58 on May 26, 2007 16:16:42 GMT -5
well sounds like we have 3 coaches on board just 32 more to go.
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Coach Swain
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Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on May 26, 2007 17:07:24 GMT -5
Obviously in any type of scenario that would entail three or four leagues merging to form one super league you would have to give something to get something...... In response to the grow a pair remark about the weather in the spring.....What is the difference about the excuses made about playing games in the heat? We could just as easily say "Grow a Pair" Everything always makes so much sense when you are only looking through your rose colored glasses! The bottom line is that there are very good arguements for playing in either season. The compramise would be to split both season and play in the middle. Which sounds reasonable (the intial May proposal that was made and had no takers!) Go play a game in mid-summer against the Jags on that crappy turf (which feels like its 200 degrees down there) and then tell us to grow a pair! It takes far smaller stones to play in a light rain and 70 degrees than 95 degrees outside and 120 on the field! SO don't pull the grow a pair crap! The only weather whinning that I have heard about has come from the spring leagues (We just can't play in the intense heat of the Pacific NW!). The only league that would have a problem with the heat would be the EFL which would be playing at least half of there games on the other side of the state! They could play eachother early in the year before the weather gets to hot anyway so where's the beef? We certainly don't have any problem playing in 68-70 degree weather! Where did that even come from? As far as this super league....What would it be named? I think Northwest Football League really is representative of all of these leagues. Obviously part of this discussion is about joining the GNFA. Would each divsion have it's own league name? I can tell you that I could never imagine a scenario where there was no longer a NWFL. Been around too long and had way to much success! Just my two cents as well!
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Post by Coachclark on May 26, 2007 17:16:52 GMT -5
tossing my two cents. 6 divisions and 2 conferences.
"Dreams are MADE to come true."
Coach Clark
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Post by headstang on May 26, 2007 18:00:33 GMT -5
biggest difference in playing in the cold and playing in the heat is the health of the players. If you noticed in my message I was specifically talking about the EFL dealing with the heat on the other side of the mountains. And I have heard a few guys talking about it being too cold and rainy in the spring. The "grow a pair" comment was aimed to those that complain about those cold weather conditions.
Personally I like the summers to enjoy the lake and the sunshine ;D
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Coach Swain
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Retired but always a Bolt!
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Post by Coach Swain on May 26, 2007 21:20:01 GMT -5
This just in......All football has been banned from Southern California to New Hapshire between the months of June and September. It has been deemed unsafe for people to play football at temperatures that exceed 75 degrees. Oh and there might be a provision for a light dizzle next season! LOL I agree enjoying the summers to do other things. Fortunately for me I have the summers off because I work for a school district! I just don't want to hear the whole grow a pair thing.... which didn't start with you so I wasn't directing all of my sarcasm towards your post! The only league that actually has anything to say about the weather is the EFL. Personally I think it's kind of weak but I grew up in Texas and played college football in California were we had several practices and games where we were playing in 100 plus temperatures. Bear Bryant is rolling over in his grave will all this winnie talk about it being to hot to play football! Why don't we just bag the whole football thing and play soccer? Football is a tough guy sport!
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DaKineFourNine
starter
"Big gulps huh? Welp, see ya later!"
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Post by DaKineFourNine on May 27, 2007 0:45:36 GMT -5
With all due respect Coach Swain I understand where you are coming from. Playing college ball in Spokane requires you to endure hot summers and cold falls.
Unfortunately I disagree with your statement about playing in the summer heat for two reasons.
First, our athletes are generally not at the same fitness level as a high school or collegiate athletes so the heat may be very dangerous for our players.
Second, we don't have trainers that can support the needs of athletes playing under these conditions.
Therefore I see no reason to jeopardize the health of a minor league athlete which can be detrimental to them or anyone they may be supporting in the name of playing football.
Just my ideas.
Arnie Otterbeck
By the way Lowell, nice job putting that visual together.
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Coach Swain
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Retired but always a Bolt!
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Post by Coach Swain on May 27, 2007 12:37:29 GMT -5
Arnie,
I understand where you are coming from and the points you made about semi-pro athletes and their overall fitness level as well as having appropriate training staff are excellent and well thought out. If you go back through my posts on this one you will see that I did acknowledge that the Eastern Washington teams have a weather issue. Do I think it can be worked around YES but that's just my humble opinion.
These comments about weather were all made in reference to people making comments about the NWFL and our apparent unwillingness to play in cold weather. I have never seen a NWFLer complain about this, but that doens't mean it hasn't happened.
I would love to see this happen and it is frustrating when we can't put our heads together and get it done! There are some people that do not want this to happen because they would go from "highly ranked" teams to middle of the pack teams that are not better than everyone else atheltically. Until those peolpe are ready to balance the scales it won't happen anyway! And I beleive some of those people reside in the EFL and hide behind a weather situation that can be worked around! But it isn't just the EFL believe ME there are people like this hiding behind one reason or the other in all of the leagues including mine.
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DaKineFourNine
starter
"Big gulps huh? Welp, see ya later!"
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Post by DaKineFourNine on May 27, 2007 19:54:48 GMT -5
Well put coach! In my opinion the most effective way to run a "mega league" such as this idea would be to delegate responsibility for each division playing underneath a general umbrella. This umbrella would include rules, regulations, conduct, etc., etc. Each division would be responsible for taking care of matters on each team. I could go more into specifics but I think that would be more time and thought than I am willing to dedicate in a single post right now.
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Coach Swain
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Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on May 27, 2007 20:44:15 GMT -5
I agree the people who make the decisions need to take a few more steps forward before I am willing to really dig into the issue as well!
Good Luck!
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Post by bearcats58 on May 27, 2007 22:15:52 GMT -5
What is the next step? Send a letter to each team or league, run a poll to see if enough people are on board, go to each league meeting. This could be done as soon as next year but it will take alot of work. If we dont' take the next step it will die right here on this message board like all the other great ideas.
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Post by lowell on May 28, 2007 0:37:47 GMT -5
ok, so I updated the potential league with 6 divisions..kinda like that idea. I watched the Puget Sound Invaders and the Whatcom County Raiders and figured they'd earned a spot..they can throw and catch...defense is a bit suspect..but they can ball. Anyway, since you all have covered the fact that 1. weather is not an issue 2. All teams will have to compromise and probably start in Late April/1st of May 3. All coaches/owners will have to swallow their pride and agree that they like what they see. As soon as they agree to get along for the betterment of football in the Northwest, we can move forward. Here's an location map of all the teams...Oregon to me might as well be a different country so I may be off on some of these team locations...LOL. Peace my brotha's
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Post by Bull58 on May 28, 2007 1:40:33 GMT -5
Great idea, will never happen.
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Post by svlightning on May 28, 2007 17:39:37 GMT -5
I think it would take some work and a lot of tweaking, you would have some teams merge unless you tried to keep 2 teams in the same city, at some places, plus there are teams that wouldn't want to operate under the NWFL umbrella. That does not mean it can't be done, and I believe competition just improves your team, but it is a process. I would be for it if I had the late part of my summer for fishing and vacations and stuff like that.
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Post by Vizzini on May 28, 2007 18:33:10 GMT -5
Everybody seems to like the idea, but everybody keeps saying "it can't be done" B.S. Have you ever heard of "mutiny"? If every player demands this and forces their owners to comply, then guess what.... they'll have to or they won't have a team. Of course this would all depend on how driven you guys are, and how organized you are. But, I just don't think you guys have the gonads to do this. You're all lip service It's time to put up or be quiet. peace out honky's.
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Post by svlightning on May 28, 2007 18:42:11 GMT -5
Well I am not a player, but rather an owner, and there is more to it than just it looks good on paper.
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Post by Vizzini on May 28, 2007 19:03:36 GMT -5
I understand that SVLightening. However, I'm not ridiculing the coaches and owners, but the players. I know it's much more difficult than just talking about it. They have ideas, but do they have the heart? Do they have what it takes to make their dreams a reality? I don't think so. Prove me wrong. Yeah, they all have potential, but what has potential ever gotten anybody? Not a darn' thing. That's why I said "put up or be quiet". I hope I do piss some people off. Maybe this is the kick in the arse these people need to get them moving forward.
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Coach Swain
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Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on May 28, 2007 19:35:17 GMT -5
This is one tough Kitten! ;D
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Post by Vizzini on May 28, 2007 19:46:25 GMT -5
It's just the old soldier in me Coach Swain You can take the man out of the soldier, but you can't take the soldier out of the man. Kill em all, and let God sort them out!!!
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G27
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Post by G27 on May 28, 2007 22:04:03 GMT -5
Great idea but it seems it would take alot to come together on this. I think we should start out small and try to merge 2 or maybe even 3 (but I think 2 would be better start off) leagues first and build from there. It would be alot easier to work thru the nuts and bolts. And maybe the following season other teams can join in on creating the best semi-pro league in the world. Thats my quick 2 cents.........
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Post by wabucknut on May 29, 2007 0:16:01 GMT -5
I don't know how you guys make a summer team work. We found it incredibly difficult on everyone involved (players, coaches, staff, fans) playing our games in summer. There's weddings, graduations, vacations - it was nearly impossible.
Don't get me wrong - the NWFL has been around for so long that clearly you guys have it figured out. It's just making a summer schedule work is way over my head.
Thanks to lowell for putting that little map together. That must have been a lot of time. I really appreciate the visual. It helped get the thoughts going.
Commissioners should talk. This certainly makes enough sense to at least have some lengthy discussions.
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Post by Rob on May 29, 2007 1:38:07 GMT -5
Here is an Eastern Washington team that played in the NWFL from May through August 2004. Notice the dates of their home games. Also these Western WA teams played in the heat of Eastern WA and most of them won. This team was called the Apple Valley Bucks of Wenatchee.
5/1 Snohomish County Vikings @ Wenatchee 5/8 Northwest Avalanche @ Wenatchee 5/22 Washington Cavaliers @ Wenatchee 6/19 Oregon Thunderbolts @ Wenatchee 6/26 Renton Ravens @ Wenatchee 7/24 West Sound Saints @ Quincy (Wenatchee) 8/21 Multnomah Co. Buccaneers @ Wenatchee 8/28 Pierce County Bengals @ Wenatchee
Back then this Bucks team played 14 games. Currently the EFL just plays 8 games so playing in May and June for most Eastern WA teams is no big thing. They play their games now in May and June. So what is the problem?
(Now my thoughts) To make things painfully simple, keep the 5 leagues the way they are right now. Everyone play 10 games, everyone start in May, the 5 league champions advance, the two smallest leagues the CFL and PNFC champions play each other first. This CFL/PNFC winner plays the NWFL champion. The OFL champion plays the EFL champion. The winners of these two games play each other for the NW championship and we're done.
Simple (Good-night) ;D
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