Coach Swain
All Pro
Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on Aug 1, 2010 13:12:39 GMT -5
Well I helped out last night with the Bolts vs Cavs and I have to say that after being around semi-pro football for 10 years it made me really sad to look back on the NWFL and what it was compared to now......I was a big supporter of this movement of change in search of something better for our players, but I have to say I am truly eating my words.
There are some fantastic leagues out there that are very well run. The PDFL is extremely well run and a class group top to bottom....But we have a bunch of 4 team leagues!
We almost all got our start in the NWFL that's why everyone still uses this board. I just wish that everyone would sit down at the table and create a football association that would allow for all of these leagues to merge into ONE league or one association of leagues that would play eachother like AFC NFC AFC WEST etc! It's not that hard!
I know this has been talked about for years but one thing I've realized is it's up to the players. This is FOR YOU if you want a real league with a championship that feels like it means something let your voice be heard.
Titans, Bolts, Ravens, Bengals, Cavs, Vikings, Stallions, Raiders we had a North and South Division that both were bitterly fought over and this was only 3 years ago....
And I have to say this was NOWHERE near the hi point for the NWFL the league was much stronger 5 years before this. I hold my position that the NWFL would need to elect a commissioner that is not a coach on a team. There is a conflict of interest there........But I've been watching 10 years and never seen a league as strong as the NWFL we all prided ourselves on that, now we are all soldiers with no countries. No national championships, no bitter rivalries, no North vs South nothing!
I don't mean to offend any people in other leagues I think creative minds together could be grown-ups and negotiate for a piece of all these leagues in one super-league to stay alive. I am done coaching now, I'm coaching HS and it takes too much of my time but the NWFL provided me with the tools I needed to coach at any level. Ask yourself the question what do you want out of this and what did you enjoy more? I think semi-pro reps have a responsibility to come together OFL,WWFA, PDFL, and NWFL and provide something that offers the best possible product to our young players.
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Post by dwilson8181@hotmail.com on Aug 2, 2010 19:10:10 GMT -5
I cannot agree more with you more man! The team talent level at the semi-pro football level in the PNW is pathetic now. I mean, I am a 35 YO midget fat-boy who can play at an above average level at center (played for the Terminators this year). 10 years ago when I was in my prime physically I could not do that. As much as I love playing every play of every game – it is not natural! I miss being a fan of NW semi-pro ball I have been playing ball in the NW since 1996 and I have NEVER been more disappointed! Let’s all put our egos aside for the betterment of this league. PNW semi-pro ball is so rag-tag now that I will not allow my family to come see the games. That is not good for ANY team! There are too many “chiefs and not enough Indians” in the PNW. And before you say anything “John” about how “I” suggest this gets done – let me just say this. Let’s all put our D**K’s down and just play ball!!!!!
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Post by KickersRule on Aug 3, 2010 1:56:23 GMT -5
I agree with both of you but the problem is egos and who is in charge ect... I said this on Duante Barnetts board and I will say again. I own the Wildcats team and would (POSSIBLE) bring them to the NWFL. I started in this league back in 1997 I would consider it because the NWFL is one of the best league in the past. I would put my egos-pride a side and do what is best for my players if it is the NWFL or NAFL-NW or WFL or independent or GNFA. It is not about me the Wildcats it is about the players and what is best. I was all for the summit meeting but could not go because of family obligations. I think owners should sit down and discuss stuff but we are so worried about who is in charge ect... I know me that I would never take a commissioner job again and I do respect the commissioners that do stick around. If the Wildcats are not a part of a league in 2011 they will be a independent team. I would rather help bring the NWFL back or join another league ect... I think that their should be a new Commissioner also that would follow the bylaws. I am not trying to make anyone angry but it needed to be said. I think that J Phillips would be a good candidate for 2011 he would be honest and fair. I also think that Baines could do it if he followed the bylaws but the NWFL also does need a change just my opinion.
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Coach Swain
All Pro
Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on Aug 3, 2010 12:33:45 GMT -5
I really think the "commissioner" role is overblown anyway. If you follow the bylaws the board always has final say on everything and can remove the commissioner if he isn't acting in the right way. Baines is a very good man and he tries to do the right thing. He's set up to fail because he owns a team and coaches it.
If you took the "commissioners" from each of these leagues and made them equal share stakeholders in the Northwest Football Association for example you could have something. The Association creates the bylaws and the leagues all follow them. Take the NAFL for example great model. Condense it down to the NW and you have a NWFA.
The NWFL could still operate under this model but so could the Cascade League, PDFL, OFL etc. Then you have a real championship and something the players can take pride in.
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Post by KickersRule on Aug 3, 2010 13:38:43 GMT -5
Ron is a good man I agree with you completely but it is a conflict to be a owner and a Commissioner. I hope all owners can sit down and find a way to figure this all out. I think listening to players ideas are good also because owners don't know it all. I think we should involve players ideas and input. I would like to (Possible) help the NWFL make a come back being the 5th team but I am not gonna pay a arm and a leg to get into the league consider its current situation. It is just sad when you see the players beg for playoffs with 3-4 teams left in this league. The players are always left in the dark the players make your team and they deserve to know the truth period plain and simple. If owners on this level don't pay players they could at least give them a all-star game and be honest to them and not string them a long ect... I also know that 2 more teams would possible join in 2011 but the league has the same Commissioner that is a owner no disrespect to baines but that is the truth. If I said something offensive I am sorry my number is (425) 754-9718 let's talk about it but Swain has good points and they needed to be said.
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Post by coach1307 on Aug 3, 2010 15:06:47 GMT -5
For those of you that are interested I believe Wes Fischer has done quite alot to resolve the current issues. I think you all should contact him and listen to some of the ideas he has put in play
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Post by KickersRule on Aug 3, 2010 15:17:45 GMT -5
I agree Wes is a good person on handling issues ect.. I just think this league could come back if it is under new leadership or follow the rules just my opinion. I don't care if it is Baines.Fischer,Phillips,Jeff Scott,Rarey,Sara Palin as long as they follow the bylaws that are modified each year by the owners and voted on. If they are still bylaws??? I don't know but the Wildcats will play either way just wanted to (POSSIBLE) help out. We will explore our options and see what is in store for us. Do what is best for your players and fans also just once again my opinion. I wish we all could meet up and figure this all out. We could all arm wrestle and whoever wins is in charge LoL!
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Post by debbiefischer on Aug 3, 2010 16:32:29 GMT -5
ho hum...some people come on here and talk like they:
1) know what is going on
2) are part of our league
3) think they could be part of the league...
4) use the words by-laws and don't even know what is in them
5) have never attended a league meeting....
generally that is called Bullshit.
What Brian Martinez has said is true, Wes Fischer has a handle on a lot of the issues that have arisen he is also in communication with other owners.
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Post by KickersRule on Aug 3, 2010 17:52:32 GMT -5
I didn't say I knew what was going on it just seems kinda off fishy that is all. The CFL-BYLAWS were 70% Northwest Football league bylaws that were used by Kinsey and the CFL. That is the problem when owners fight with other owners that is why we will never come together PERIOD! I never said anything in the message to offend anyone by saying having a different leadership it is a opinion we have a right to having one. When you have 3 NWFL teams and a PDFL team that was 0-5 no disrespect to the thunderbolts that beat the Cavs it doesn't make any sense. If you want the NWFL to come back and have teams either change your guy's change of thought or and leadership. The sad thing is I know of 2 teams that would join but this is the crap that they wouldn't deal with.
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Coach Swain
All Pro
Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on Aug 3, 2010 17:56:14 GMT -5
Debbie,
Please don't take what I've said as being critical. I've been a part of this league for 10 years and I've been to league meetings......I don't pretend to know whats going on currently and if this work is underway then great!
I respect you and Wes for everything you've done for young people in our area.. If u say Wes has a handle on it I believe that. What I think is unfortunate is that every time someone comes on and makes suggestions about making things better they get met with venom. I just want the NWFL to get back to the greatness we all were proud to be a part of no hidden agenda! God Bless
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Post by KickersRule on Aug 3, 2010 17:59:50 GMT -5
I would like to see the NWFL come back also I didn't mean to offend anyone either with my message but If I did sorry. I have been around and seen a lot and it wouldn't be bad if their was a change that is all I said.
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Post by garciawr9 on Aug 3, 2010 22:52:05 GMT -5
I think the negative comments and negative minds are the things holding this league from going anywhere or doing anything. People need to start realizing that if they TRULY are trying to do what's best for "their players", they would put their team and themselves in a situation of COMING TOGETHER instead of having all these leagues.
East of the mountains - 1 league WFL
West of the mountains - 4 leagues
Need I say more?
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Post by debbiefischer on Aug 4, 2010 0:08:24 GMT -5
Coach Swain,
You didn't offend me in any way at all. Wes and I appreciate yoru comments and we understand what you are saying. My comments were directed towards someone else.
Debbie
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Coach Swain
All Pro
Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on Aug 4, 2010 0:16:53 GMT -5
Debbie,
I am sorry I misunderstood what was being said there I have nothing but respect for you and Wes and what u mean to semi-pro football in the NW!
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Post by Bull58 on Aug 4, 2010 6:35:03 GMT -5
Coach, as you know, the PDFL is trying to distance itself from semi-pro PERIOD. Thats why we dont participate in any of the National polls or anything. We DO play semi-pro teams in preseason, and it provides valuable evaluation time for us...
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Post by dwilson8181@hotmail.com on Aug 4, 2010 9:32:07 GMT -5
My message was not meant to offend anyone or point any fingers. The fact of the matter is I do not know all the complex underlining issues that are harboring the problems (although I will say that I have attending various league meetings over the years and did see a lot of disharmony and many empty seats that led to noting getting accomplished). My frustration was aimed more towards the level of play of ALL of the leagues which I believe can be attributed with too many teams and too many different leagues, with several people involved having a "me or us first" kind of attitude. With that being said I completely understand why "small-business" owners have their own agendas. As an aging player I just wish that the legacy of high-level semi-pro football in the Northwest can be restored (not that it was ever perfect as nothing in life is) so that future generations of players can get the same enjoyment that I did playing the game that we all love. But I also understand that the problems of semi-pro ball are not only occurring in the PNW. I live half of my time in the PNW and the other half in Oklahoma due to my wife’s military obligation and I have witnessed/heard of problems with semi-pro ball in Oklahoma as well (multiple leagues, teams moving leagues, sour grapes between owners, etc, etc….).
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Post by debbiefischer on Aug 4, 2010 10:06:18 GMT -5
My comment was not directed towards Donnie or Coach Swain. My comment was directed to someone who knows who they are.
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Post by pdubbleu on Aug 4, 2010 22:21:39 GMT -5
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Coach Swain
All Pro
Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on Aug 4, 2010 23:17:12 GMT -5
Coach, as you know, the PDFL is trying to distance itself from semi-pro PERIOD. Thats why we don't participate in any of the National polls or anything. We DO play semi-pro teams in preseason, and it provides valuable evaluation time for us... Bull, I really respect what the PDFL is trying to do. Frankly there is no market for it and it's not financially sustainable to pay guys that are NOT professional football players. If they were pros they wouldn't be playing in the PDFL. I mean this as no disrespect to a class league, class leadership, first class outfit top to bottom. But its watered down. And don't tell me Idaho, Bellingham, and the Bolts of the last two years aren't semi-pro teams they wouldn't be NWFL play-off teams 3 years ago. None of those teams beat Titans, Bolts, or Stallions 3 years ago and honestly doubt they'd haven beaten the Raiders or Vikings either.....Sorry just real talk! The Cobras have a decent team but no better than the Titans, Stallions, or Bolts were the last year the NWFL was around. And let's not even get into Jags, Jets, Hawks, Old Bolts and Bengals talk not in the same league. Some fantastic individual players but NO not close. You and Reyna were their best lineman last year in what your late 30's. We need to look at successful semi-pro models and spend money making the overall product from uniforms to venues to talent better before we start paying dudes that aren't pro ball players! But hey I'm not knockin anyone's hustle if u can get it get it! |
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Post by justjohn on Aug 5, 2010 1:43:59 GMT -5
I really think the "commissioner" role is overblown anyway. Agreed. The commissioner makes all the phones calls to schedule the meeting, calls the meeting to order, takes non-stop crap and blame from all sides, adjourns the meeting, and then gets home to field hours of whiny phone calls from those owners who didn't get their way at the meeting, most of whom didn't even bother to attend the meeting. As Larry recently learned, to accept the role of commissioner you either love the game of football so much that you don't mind spending hours of free time devoted to organizing the league, or you need to have your head examined. |
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Post by justjohn on Aug 5, 2010 1:53:35 GMT -5
the PDFL is trying to distance itself from semi-pro PERIOD. I applaud that effort. All you can do is try. Unfortunately, so many of your starters choosing not to travel to your game in Boise reeks of the "prima donna semi-pro" attitude. I'd love to believe in your league but it's hard when the players themselves haven't made a commitment. Too many teams are more concerned about winning games than building a program. If you're half as good at coaching as you were at playing then you don't need any of the prima donnas who didn't travel. Cut them all loose and coach the hell out of the players you can count on. |
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Post by Bull58 on Aug 5, 2010 4:40:01 GMT -5
John and Swain: I appreciate the respect and compliments. But yeah, thats why I put "TRYING". As in ANYTHING, its a process, and you have to take the lumps and go through growing pains. Its not going to be a success overnight, it takes hard work and dedication, and thats what Im trying to pour into the PDFL. The Boise incident was unfortunate, and had me VERY upset cuz not only did we take a loss, but we may have seen the end of a budding superstar when Kenny Jackson broke his leg in Boise playing behind a makeshift line with 1 starter. PLUS, Kenny is one of my best friends. Most of our players come from semi-pro, so of course there is that semi-pro mentality. We are TRYING to lose that by recruiting more from colleges and guys with previous pro experience. Believe me guys, we are in this for the long haul...
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Post by Bull58 on Aug 5, 2010 4:42:04 GMT -5
I played down there, they ARE doing it right! 2003 CFA Champs Inglewood Blackhawks... |
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Coach Swain
All Pro
Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on Aug 5, 2010 13:42:29 GMT -5
John and Swain: I appreciate the respect and compliments. But yeah, thats why I put "TRYING". As in ANYTHING, its a process, and you have to take the lumps and go through growing pains. Its not going to be a success overnight, it takes hard work and dedication, and thats what Im trying to pour into the PDFL. The Boise incident was unfortunate, and had me VERY upset cuz not only did we take a loss, but we may have seen the end of a budding superstar when Kenny Jackson broke his leg in Boise playing behind a makeshift line with 1 starter. PLUS, Kenny is one of my best friends. Most of our players come from semi-pro, so of course there is that semi-pro mentality. We are TRYING to lose that by recruiting more from colleges and guys with previous pro experience. Believe me guys, we are in this for the long haul... I had a friend tell me once when I asked him "how do you know when you are looking at a pro what do you look for?" He said "if people will pay to see you play, your a pro" Nobody is gonna pay to see these guys play....Arena 2 is an exciting brand of football but they are losing money by the boatload. I agree that the effort will be there and love the guys but John's right if you won't even travel to road games you aint nowhere near a pro! |
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Post by KickersRule on Aug 5, 2010 18:05:14 GMT -5
I would never take the role of a commissioner again period! I just want to be a owner and HOPE people and other owners can be forgiving. I wish all egos can be put a side and come together it is about the players not about power. If you are a Commissioner,President,VP cool but working together with a league and other league's is the key. I said and say again the Wildcats will have a season regardless if in a league or not. I even know 2 teams that wanted to start their own league but it doesn't make since to have all these league it is crazy!!! Debbie you and I was very close at a time I know you have the ability to work with others their is nothing wrong with other people having ideas and opinions. I never meant to offend you or anyone just voicing my opinion. If you don't like opinions from people voicing them regarding semipro football that is fine but that is one reasons why this league will not come back because of that. I hope it does come back but you have to work well with others and understand that owners,players,coaches,fans, are grown men or woman and have their opinions if you like them or not. I think listening to players are good to because owners don't know everything. If their is let's say 5 meetings in a calender year it would be cool to have a meeting for all the players and just listening to how they feel 1-5 meetings they are the ones that help build everything.
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Coach Swain
All Pro
Retired but always a Bolt!
Posts: 878
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Post by Coach Swain on Aug 5, 2010 19:11:30 GMT -5
LCFL is the real deal 4 5 team divisions. I hate to say it but there need to be some fundamental changes made in the future....Here are a few suggestions for whatever its worth.
1. Players must provide their own gear and carry own insurance. We have babied players so long that now everyone cries broke. In most cases these are grown men who have jobs, own homes, and cars, and boats....Time to make men act like men and help out! Owners already lose enough money providing fields and refs...trust me nobody is making money on this.
2. Team owners need to provide acceptable venues for both games and practice and show permits for both.
3. Players start a player's association and elect a president who sits in ALL league meetings and has equal vote.
4. Players buy own jerseys because heck half the time they keep them anyway! Now you can put your name on it.....Player's pay a player fee to cover their jersey and also goes to a general fund to support player's association.
5. League provides a first class All-Star game played at neutral site.
6. Championship games, All-Star games, and League meetings are held at sites accessible by teams from North and South Oregon and Washington OR owners have the option to be on conference call for league meetings. I like having All-Star game determine championship site being in Oregon or Washington so players play and it means something!
7. Northwest Football Association formed and then creates their own 5 divisions OFL, CFL, PDFL, NWFL etc forgive me I don't know all of them. Meetings for association held once a month conference call to plan for NWFA play-offs when league seasons are over. Once we have a champ in that division we hook up with the LCFL champ in Vegas for a West Coast champ. Then we hook up with the large leagues in the SW and East Coast and create a National title game. Sound familiar old timers I think this was the way it was for many years! Let's get people to the table and get it done!
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Post by KickersRule on Aug 5, 2010 21:43:22 GMT -5
Dude! I agree completely with all the above. When I was the Commissioner of the Cascade Football League I fought for all the players to have a all-star game and it passed. I explained to all the owners we don't pay players but we can compensate them with a all-star game for their sweat and blood they give for your team. The players deserve a all-star game it gives them something to play for and will be dedicate to their owners ect..
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